Acupuncture Regulation

Hi, thought I might add a bit here as I have had both types of acupuncture.

Agree with all said about the diagnosis etc etc and as I said on my other thread I thought Five Elements was wonderful. However I often have what you are calling 'dry needling' from Anahata and this is also extremely effective. I usually have it in my shoulder, hands or arms due to overuse doing massages etc. It is very effective. Sometimes it hurts a bit, but mostly it doesn't.

Sometimes I have a bit of spotting (in both treatments) but don't have any concern about it.

I think they are both worthwile and each have their own place. Bear in mind that physios and osteopaths, gps etc have had years of training and are used to working with people when they are taught 'dry needling' so it isn't like they are some Jo off the street with no training. Osteopaths do four years for instance so I think you can rest assured they are properly trained and qualified.

Some GPs are not great at this, one I heard of wished he was better but admitted he didn't get enough practice.
 
Please do not rest assured that this is the case. An osteopath's 4 years of training are in osteopathy, not acupuncture. Similarly a GP may have 7 years of training, of which a weekend may be "acupuncture", if that.

I do not have any doubts about the effectiveness of dry-needling for what it is used for, and neither do I have any doubts that people are greatly helped by it (read my first post above!) but it is not acupuncture, it is dry-needling. What's wrong with calling a spade a spade! The only similarity between these two therapies is that thin sharp bits of steel are used. Lots of therapies share the same tools, but that doesn't make them the same therapy.

Sorry about the rant, but it's just so important for people who are not aware of the distinction to have good information IMHO.

Aragorn
 
Aragorn

Acus - is Latin for needle & puncture, well that's self explanatory.

Not sure what the Latin for spade is, though. [sm=scratchchin.gif]

I always make a point (no pun intended) of clarifying the difference between western and traditional acupuncture systems. We have a TCM acupuncturist at all the practices that I work from, so even tell them that's another option if they prefer.

Re. Previous training of osteopaths, then I gather that Candie was referring to the medical sciences and in the context of safety. Osteopaths have a thorough training in anatomy, patho-physiology, biomechanics, interpretation of clinical tests and imaging, and relevant areas of psychology and sociology.

If you were to take one of these, then I would have to say that we are anatomists, first & foremost. We cover the anatomy course that doctors get during their entire degree in our first year. And then go into it in more depth for the other 3 years.

On the subject of the Thread heading - I agree that Western & Oriental acupuncture should be clearly distinguished between in any forthcoming self regulation, but I believe that could be done by the same governing body. Referring to Western acupuncture as dry needling may well aid the in this distinction to the general public, but equally introducing a new term to them may add to the confusion. It also seems unlikely that the western word acupuncture will gain legal protection for the sole use of oriental style acupuncture systems.

Andrew.
 
Hi Andrew

More than unlikely - almost a certainty! And a tremendous shame.

Not sure about the relevance of the etymology lesson - I don't think the Chinese kanji that we translate as "acupuncture" has much to do with latin. (spatha, by the way = spade)

But your point is relevant to the proposed regulation - the definition of acupuncture being used relates only to the insertion of solid needles and nothing to do with the medical system used. I can even see a persuasive case for including tattoo artists in the DoH definition!

No need to justify an osteopath's training either - I know how thorough it is, but I stand by my point that however thorough and whatever duration the training, it is not in acupuncture.

It's a simple misnomer - the public would get used to it if it were re-named...
But why do that. Do you name every technique you use to your patients? Does a physio? or a GP? Does a physio become a "heat-lampist" when they flick the switch? What is the fascination with naming dry-needling "acupuncture". Can't dry-needling just be integrated into the therapy it is complementing and regarded as just another technique? (These are sincere questions BTW!)

Does traditional acupuncture not deserve a unique identity in the public eye?

Aragorn
 
"Dry needleing" is clearly different, but the use of needles in physiotheropy has got to be pointed out by some definition as it's too intrusive not to be. From what i can gather maybe traditional acupuncture should be called "traditional accupuncture" and dry needling should be called something like "totally unregulated slightly risky make sure you have a Hep-b vaccination acupuncture"?
Is this unfair?
 
Yes, it is unfair I'd say.
Dry-needling is for the most part applied by practitioners such as physios, osteopaths, nurses and GPs who do know what they are doing (in terms of hygenic needle insertion), and are regulated (in their own discipline). They may not be acupuncturists, but they are dry-needlers, and they can do that properly!
Anyone can set up an acupuncture clinic at present, uninsured and unqualified. It would be illegal for them to pretend to be a GP or an osteopath, but they could legally pretend to be a traditional acupuncturist.
Dry-needling does not equate to irresponsible, uneffective, unhygenic treatment. I'm sorry you seem to have this impression. Dry-needling is not acupuncuture though - it is an adjunctive technique that happens to resemble acupuncture.

My advice is to Always check out the credentials of a therapist! It's OK to ask about a person's training, not just generally, but specifically regarding what they are offering to do to you there and then. If your GP offers to stick acupuncture needles in you, Ask them about it - you may be surprised: Some have trained for 4 years as I have and are members of the British Acupuncture Council; others have done a weekend's course! Find out, and then make your own decision.

Aragorn
 
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  41. Golden Sunshine Spa:
    โœจClick on our Username and FOLLOW US for updates and special services ! โœ… Click Here Today๐ŸŒธSamy๐ŸŒธPriya๐ŸŒธLynda๐ŸŒธAletta๐ŸŒธIsabella๐ŸŒธIvy Call us โ˜Ž 905 - 265 - 2158โ˜Ž๏ธ Your ultimate service awaits! โœจ
  42. DareDevil:
    366 ARIA WELLNESS โ™ฅ๏ธโ™ฅ๏ธADDRESS: 360 HWY 7, UNIT #6, RICHMOND HILL,647-222-5683 โ™ฅ๏ธโ™ฅ๏ธ(PHONES CALL ONLY, NO TEXT'N AVAILABLE) โ™ฅ๏ธTODAY'S Schedule!โ™ฅ๏ธ Loaded lineup with Beautiful Girls : New young RMT student Helen, Fun girl Apple, Magical Mia and Work out๐Ÿ‹๐Ÿšด๐Ÿ’ช Babe Amy! SPECIAL PROMO 30 MINS 2 GIRLS $70 ๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน**TODAY'S PICKS OF THE DAY ARE ๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿญ APPLE AND HELEN๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿญ**
  43. Soul Relax Spa:
    โœจ Looking for a relaxing escape? โœ… Click Here Meet๐ŸŒธCarly๐ŸŒธBrandy๐ŸŒธKellyCall us today for the best treatment and service experience. Click on our Username and FOLLOW US for updates ! Call now โ˜Ž 289 - 298 - 5662โ˜Ž๏ธ Your ultimate relaxation awaits! โœจ
  44. Spa in Markham:
    GOLDEN FS โ€“ 8380 Kennedy Rd ๐Ÿ“ž 905-258-0777 / 416-688-6886 ๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡บ VANESSA, ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ JULIE (2PM), ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ด MEGAN (8PM), ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ KELLY, ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ณ SONIA (8PM), ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ JESSIE ๐Ÿ”Ž View Schedule: bit.ly/flowers_schedule ๐Ÿ›Ž๏ธ Booking Now: bit.ly/bookinggoldenlove
  45. FLOWER Spa - BLUEXADO | Thornhill | VAUGHAN:
    BLUEXADO FS โ€“ #06-1102 Centre St ๐Ÿ“ž 416-357-9797 / 416-678-8668 ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ CICI, ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ AMY, ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ SHERRY ๐Ÿ”Ž View Schedule: bit.ly/flowers_schedule ๐Ÿ›Ž๏ธ Booking Now: bit.ly/bookingbluexadolove
  46. FLOWER Spa โ€“ PINK | Scarborough | TORONTO:
    PINK FS โ€“ 3300 McNicoll Ave ๐Ÿ“ž 416-299-5515 / 416-817-3839 ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ท ELINA, ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ญ MADY, ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ฌ CANDY, ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ NANCY ๐Ÿ”Ž View Schedule: bit.ly/flowers_schedule ๐Ÿ›Ž๏ธ Booking Now: bit.ly/bookingpinklove
  47. SpringGreen.:
    Today we have 5 girls on downtown Toronto 72 gerrard st west๏ผš๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’‹ New girl Hitti very young๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’‹Lisa- Tanned Spanish beauty with large melons and a fun booty too minica- exotic goddess with a gymnasts body and corresponding flexibility Jennifer- Exotic beauty with... Call and text 647 891 0699 ask question :heart4 :heart4 :heart4
  48. Jennyโ€™s Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’JENNYโ€™S SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…5170 DUNDAS STREET WESTโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ( 647-893-5196)โ˜Ž๏ธCall or Text โ˜Ž๏ธ( 437-888-3759)โ˜Ž๏ธCall Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…GRAND OPENING๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅEXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNYโ€™S SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅTWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ’ฏREAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS๐Ÿ’ฏ ๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’‹Limited Time Special Promotion๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’‹ โœ…๐Ÿ’ฆ30 Minutes Nude Mass
  49. AliceSpa:
    3 Sexy Young Girls Today at Alice Spa. Open 10am to 9pm : CLOUDIA (12pm-9pm): is Vietnamese, young, petite 5'2" & 96 Lbs, B Cup, best rim deep bbbj cim. $40 Room Fee + $80 (incl bbbj & fs). +$20 for rim/cim. Excellent open minded services. SKY (10:30am-9pm): is Part time girl from Indonesia, petite 5'2", B Cup, 100 Lbs, long black hair, new to the biz.Young, fresh/cute, pretty, submissive, slim tiny waist, fair skin. bbbj
  50. ForeverWarden:
    Monday at ๐Ÿซฆโค๏ธ๐Ÿ”ดโ™พ๏ธ๐“•๐“ž๐“ก๐“”๐“ฅ๐“”๐“ก ๐“ข๐“Ÿ๐“โ™พ๏ธ๐ŸŸฅ๐Ÿ”ดโค๏ธ๐Ÿซฆ 2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฒ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด๐Ÿณ: Bella, Yumi & Cindy. Bella is around 5โ€™3โ€ with a thin to medium build, C Cups, and a pleasing personality. She can offer dfk, bbbj and cfs as well as a good massage experience. Yumi is a young half Chinese / /half Korean very sexy & slim beauty, can do bbbj cim, excellent services...
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